Curse

don_the_vito · May 30, 2010, 03:33 AM // 03:33

/signed

Its been like a week and I'm still pissed at ANet for banning my two main accounts even after they haven't given me a good drop in five years and over 7k hours -_-"

*Note* Used a multi-gw client so I could play + trade that used injection, gg on my part.

cormac ap dunn · May 30, 2010, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Ah, this has degenerated into yet another banned botter thread about them deserving their accounts back, because surely other botters are worse... lets be real about this shall we? I think we all know where the majority of the community stands on this topic. at this point you are all outed as botters, how much fun do you actually believe it will be knowing that you are watched day and night like a hawk? that people will most likely shun and ridicule you? That people will wait to see if you give even the slightest hint of reportable action? is this what you really want? Apparently it is. To boot, most of you claimed to bot out of boredom, or a desire to compete with people who actually earned what they had and perhaps were at a higher skill level then you.Doesn't sound like you would be any less bored when you come back. Besides assuming you get these accounts back, what do you think will be the chances you would get anything that was on them back, such as items, armors, titles? i would imagine 0. These little rage posts are showing a lot more then just poorly thought decisions in game, they are showing poorly thought decisions out of it as well.

-Sonata- · May 30, 2010, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

For anyone who is confused on my standpoint about the recent account bannings. My position is that the large majority of those banned did not deserve permenant bans. While usage for 3rd party programs is a violation of the EULA, the punishment must fit the crime. - That said, this thread is not a discussion of whether or not they should have been banned...

Actually, that's exactly what you're trying to get at, beneath all that smoke screen above it. If it wasn't about any position on the bannings, there would be no need to state that position at all. However, that position ties into everything, especially the motivation for even writing the post.

Anet never claimed to have stopped botting. They've always remained relatively consistant in saying you can't prevent it 100%. That was made clear again in Wednesday's statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Phinney

...Every game of decent size works to keep the problem in check, but no single, absolute solution exists.

Whatever made you believe that we, the community, thought Anet stopped botting for good, was not very accurate. None of us were fooled into thinking this was the end of botting in Tyria. There isn't a game out there that I'm aware of in the online world that is 100% free of exploits and/or bots. Not even the almighty Blizzard can stop them all in its powerhouse, World of Warcraft.

As for the punishments handed out; Players have been around long enough to know by now that it's pretty much standard policy in games: Don't use bots. It's about as close to common sense in online gaming as you can get. Whether you experimented for 5 minutes, or 5 months, the punishments were justified. Guild Wars is 5 years old now and the policy hasn't changed. Over those 5 years, we've been warned time and time again about taking advantage of exploits, using bots, and other methods of cheating. Unless we're all running the IQ's of 3 year old toddlers, we should have gotten the message by now.

How many times do we need to be told, "Don't Do It!" ? How many times do we need to be warned? How many mass bannings do we need, such as the hidden outpost exploit in DoA, before it sinks into everyone's brain about how you should stay the hell away from cheats and exploits? It shouldn't be more than once. Most of us are at the age in our lives where we don't need to be told to stay away from something more than just once. Some don't learn though. Whether it's with cheating, or offensive character names, they keep doing it and, like always, when they're caught, it's everyone elses fault.

Those that used the bots made that decision on their own. The consequence has now been given. It is my firm belief that Wednesday was just the first focused wave, which seemed to target PvP primarily. I fully expect a second, third, and fourth so that everyone finally gets the message loud and clear. Minus those that got caught, this first wave has been received with positive feedback by a majority of the community, both here and in game.

Anet laid their trap perfectly and executed it perfectly, leading the cheaters believing that Anet didn't give a damn anymore. Afterall, silence must mean they're not paying attention, right? You can bet they won't respond to this petition thread, just like they didn't respond to the other.

/notsigned.

cormac ap dunn · May 30, 2010, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Anet laid their trap perfectly and executed it perfectly, leading the cheaters believing that Anet didn't give a damn anymore. Afterall, silence must mean they're not paying attention, right? You can bet they won't respond to this petition thread, just like they didn't respond to the other.

/notsigned.

If i had the equipment i would have your babies... I think you summed that up perfectly, lets see if they listen to it...

don_the_vito · May 30, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I doubt they would listen or even care, they have all our money already so who cares if some of us are POed, right?

I doubt they care how anyone feels, it's all a business.

shoyon456 · May 30, 2010, 04:17 AM // 04:17

The OP is assuming one of two absolutes: That a 100% fix for RMT botters can be made or that they just can't do anything.

RMT botters have vast resources, and having accounts banned means nothing since they buy them by the truckload. And some of them aren't botters, but Chinese kept in a tight room forced to work like bots.

Secondly, just because we can't ban EVERYBODY doesn't mean you botters can get away scott-free. That's like saying since the police can't catch a murderer you're justified to go kill someone too. The OP's logic is scary.

EDIT: You guys BOTTED. See the EULA. Get on with your lives, you don't deserve leniency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_the_vito

I doubt they would listen or even care, they have all our money already so who cares if some of us are POed, right?

I doubt they care how anyone feels, it's all a business.

You don't deserve to be PO'd if you're guilty. Anything beyond that is null and void.

lohrok · May 30, 2010, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Anet cant win for loosing first people fuss about all the bots in guild wars and get mad with Anet for not doing anything then when the do, do something about the get fussed at for that. I for one would like to thank Anet for at least trying to do something about the bots. We leave in a imperfect world so for those who have not figured that out yet nothing is perfect.

Trub · May 30, 2010, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

If i had the equipment i would have your babies... I think you summed that up perfectly, lets see if they listen to it...

*cough*
I do have the equipment, but I'm too old.
<3 Sonata, whenever he pops in with an opinion...it's usualy point on.
Like I said, all the bannings aren't over...they JUST hired a staff to handle the PROBLEM.

On a side note:
I feel horrible to lose MANY new friends I had made in my alliance, I will miss them all...they were top notch when they weren't farm botting.
I can only be thankful that many more of my in game guildmates, and PvP buddies, hadn't joined the legions of the botters/exploiters...I would have a problem enjoying myself in this game if they had.

So, think of what you may have done to your friends when you activated that bot...ok?

Davros Uitar · May 30, 2010, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I LOLed when the OP declared the banned bots as minor offenders. This shows that the OP is well biased in pitching her questions and only has interest in relaxing the stance or one of their own accounts.

Fail topic - petition not signed.

FlyMoto · May 30, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

The bots RMTers use are used because they are virtually undetectable by any game that doesn't start scanning what processes you are running and what those processes are doing. Assuming they actually DID that much (which anti-virus programs would have a field day blocking), they'd still likely be able to get around them. This is the reason why virtually every MMO has RMTers with bots running. The only possible way to stop RMTers is for the company itself to sell gold/items cheaper than a bot company can afford (which would be such a case of inflation in the game that there could essentially be no economy, everyone would have everything).

So unless you come up with some rather ingenious method of bot detection (which every MMO company would pay you ridiculous amounts to come up with, and similarly RMT companies would pay you so they could crack it, which they would do) most companies can only do so much to stop bots, and to expect ANet to do much more than ban accounts as they are reported on a game as old as GW is rather unlikely.

Lord Sojar · May 30, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Yet again, someone saying cheaters shouldn't be banned.

If you cheat in a university course, you are given an automatic F, and typically, expelled from the university. Cheating is unfair, it's wrong, and it's evil.

If you cheat, you should be perma banned, PERIOD. There really is no middle ground here. I agree that RMT bots should also be banned, as should exploiters, permanently.

Those who were banned (excluding any bans that were truly a mistake) deserved to be perma banned. Again, they should have been MAC/IP banned, but apparently ANET isn't quite as harsh as most of us would like them to be.

/NOT SIGNED

jazilla · May 30, 2010, 05:13 AM // 05:13

@Jinkies: If we have been fooled into thinking that it's not going on then they all deserve perma-bans as a deterrent. If you don't set a precedent by setting examples of cheaters, you don't get the desired effect which is keeping these cheaters out of our game world. They cheated. They knew the consequences. The ones that didn't have no excuse either as ignorance is not a plea. If you don't respond to my post then I will take it that you agree with me being right.

Faer · May 30, 2010, 05:24 AM // 05:24

I won't speak of RMT botting and why ArenaNet will never be able to stop it, but I am very curious as to what sort of effects banning spawn exploiters would cause. Speedbooking is HFFF 2.0, and I think it's safe to say (given what happened to the Factions version of the trick) ArenaNet does not approve of that sort of behavior at all. It's obviously not something they believe people should be banned for, but it's certainly not an intended method of content completion, and can most definitely be classified as exploiting.

inb4 a hundred replies bitching at you for saying the May 26th bans weren't 100% perfect while ignoring everything else contained in your post.

Trub · May 30, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theocrat

I won't speak of RMT botting and why ArenaNet will never be able to stop it, but I am very curious as to what sort of effects banning spawn exploiters would cause. Speedbooking is HFFF 2.0, and I think it's safe to say (given what happened to the Factions version of the trick) ArenaNet does not approve of that sort of behavior at all. It's obviously not something they believe people should be banned for, but it's certainly not an intended method of content completion, and can most definitely be classified as exploiting.

inb4 a hundred replies bitching at you for saying the May 26th bans weren't 100% perfect while ignoring everything else contained in your post.

geeeeeeez.
You didn't /sign..or /notsign.
But now I'm curious as well....

Targren · May 30, 2010, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

As for Texmod and KSmod being excuses.. I'm not even going to go there because Anet specifically mentioned that these were not against the rules. The fact alone that they can modify the GW.dat makes it obvious that Anet might have messed up and cought some of these people in the crossfire.

TexMod does NOT "modify the GW.dat" nor does it employ any DLL injection. I don't know where you got that idea.

From what I can tell, TexMod hooks into the DirectX graphics API and "intercepts" the graphics data, replacing the texture before it reaches the display. If it helps you to envision it, one might allegorically say that TexMod runs on the wire between your PC and Monitor

Aeronwen · May 30, 2010, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_the_vito

/signed

Its been like a week and I'm still pissed at ANet for banning my two main accounts even after they haven't given me a good drop in five years and over 7k hours -_-"

*Note* Used a multi-gw client so I could play + trade that used injection, gg on my part.

I am totally non technical and have no idea what an injection dll is but I do use a multi gw client to pass items between my 2 accounts. Does that put me in danger of a ban?

Zonzai · May 30, 2010, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I was apparently banned for payment fraud. Is this related to the recent botting ban thingy or whatever? I've never used a bot or any exploit that I know of. And as far as I know of, I've never committed payment fraud.

cormac ap dunn · May 30, 2010, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

I was apparently banned for payment fraud. Is this related to the recent botting ban thingy or whatever? I've never used a bot or any exploit that I know of. And as far as I know of, I've never committed payment fraud.

Completely unrelated. Send in a support ticket and relax, things should work out just fine.

Move Down · May 30, 2010, 08:14 AM // 08:14

The ones that bot prob just buy a new account and start over.
But the people that got unrightfully banned just what happened to me dont think they will buy a ncsoft game ever again.

mini pet monster · May 30, 2010, 08:22 AM // 08:22

1. For those of you who don't know jinkies, he's pretty much guild wars' biggest fan. He's easily poured hundreds of dollars and 1000s of hours into this game. He's not alone either. Anet did not discriminate between those that injected 5min and those that injected 5000min, those that used it to buy feathers from the trader and those that used it to farm millions of feathers. Needless to say, they've turned some of their greatest fans and biggest supporters since day 1 into haters.

2. Anet slacked on the botting issue. BIG TIME. No two ways about it. This stuff has been out publicly since ~September. It may not have been apparent until December (umm frosty tonics??, rupts bots, snowball bots - yes many of the top players used pickup bots). All the players knew about it. Apparently, having your account on and doing repetitive content for 100s of hours doesn't raise any red flags??? And for your information, it still doesn't. Anet turned a blind eye.

3. Anet figured they'd make the best of a bad situation, and turned this whole mess into a marketing masterpiece. "3700+ accounts banned! Botters are never safe! Long live guild wars!" If they stopped the issue back in September, it would have only been a measly 10+ accounts. If they actually consistently banned people for botting, and posted warning messages when you login during prime bot times (event weekends, double points weekends). They never would have been able to accumulate more than 100 bots at once. Most of the people banned today, would never have botted. But that's not their problem. With no checks in place for 9 months, it's not surprising it got this bad.

4. Anet has won today's battle against bots, but has done little to combat RMTs. The ecto's aren't always accumulated through botting. It can also be hacking, scamming, exploiting, duping or heck, it can be legitimate methods. Often the guys on high end are also selling ectos for real money on another site. Some guys even use their main characters name as their account name to sell gold, and they also used to win halls a lot during euro hours. If you haven't lived under a rock in ascalon, you know exactly who I'm talking about. Anyone with half a brain could catch these guys.

But hey, publicly, it's not a problem besides seeing spammers for gold sites in kamadan. There's only a few dozen gold sellers at any given time. There's no great marketing piece they can make on it, so why bother, right?